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标题: 《克传》原文意思核实贴 [打印本页]

作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-19 22:40     标题: 《克传》原文意思核实贴

给《克传》也开一个吧。

胡译克传里有两处“安住于觉性”,胡氏译文和原文分别如下:
    “只要专注于一个焦点,中心就存在。外围一旦动摇,中心就形成了。自我中心奠基于外围上的点,这些外围上的点包括一个人的名誉、财产、妻子与声望等。这些点不断地被加强。这些外围的点上一直有活动在进行,自我经常害怕这些点会被破坏。”
    “没有这些中心点,我能不能活下去?”罗问道。
    “如果我从中心开始研究,我得先知道中心到底在哪里。其实根本没有一个自我中心,存在的只有觉性罢了。意识的外围制造出了一个中心,因为有外围,我才知道有个中心的存在。外围就是专注的焦点,自我中心就是由这些局限制造的。外围一旦去除,哪里还有中心呢?”
    “我们有能力去除外围吗?”我质疑。
    “如果你的心能在觉性中活动而没有自我感,你就不会有记忆。你一旦朝向外围活动,记忆就开始了。
    “到目前为止我们的思考都是从外向内的。没有自我感的思考一定是截然不同的。我们必须习惯从内向外的思考方式。”
    “那些焦点怎么办?”我问道。
“就像从篱笆的下面溜过去一样,篱笆的本身已经无关紧要了。观察这些外围上的点必须视若无睹。我们却总是立刻跳到外围,陷入自我的习性中。我们无法形成没有自我感的习性。
    “从外围朝向中心的活动往往使我们陷在自我感中。我们一旦发现自己正在全神贯注,全神贯注就变成了缩小的焦点。惯性思考都是外围的活动,其实根本没有一个可以被认得出的焦点。自我感往往和这些焦点有关,从外向内的活动制造了这种自我感。
    “我愈是能安住于觉性中,愈是能认清没有自我的事实。”
    第二天早上我们仍然继续讨论。我们问克里希那吉:“意识的外围到底是什么?它是怎么形成的?那些篱笆是如何造成的?它们的材质是否有别于那没有焦点的中心?”
    “你们为什么要停留于外围?你们为什么不能安住于觉性,去发现它的芬芳?你们为什么只关心外围的篱笆?”他回答我们。

“The center is only when there is focusing of attention. The center is formed when periphery is agitated. The center is formed as a point on the periphery. These peripheral points are one’s name, one’s property, one’s wife, fame. These points are constantly being strengthened. There is movement all the time at the peripheral points. There is a constant fear of the breaking of these points.”
“Can I live without the formation of centers?” asked Rao.
“If I start from the center, to investigate, where is the center from which to start? There is no center, but only the field. Except for the periphery there is no center. The fences to the field create the center. I only know the center because of the fence, the periphery. The fences are the points of attention, the limits that create the center. Remove these fences. Where is the center?”
“Can one remove the fences?” I queried.
“If you move in the field, in the non-center, there is no memory. See what happens as you move from field towards fence. As you approach the fence, memory begins.
“So far we have been thinking from the periphery to the center. The thinking from this (non-center) must be totally different. I have to get used to the movement from within towards the periphery.”
“What happens to the points?” I asked.
“It is like slipping under and through fences. The fences no longer matter. To see the point at the periphery is to see no point at all. What we do, however, is to jump immediately into the periphery, into the habitual. I cannot form a habit of that which has no center.
“To go from the periphery to the center is to stick in the center. When attention becomes identified it becomes the point. Thinking in habit is the movement of the periphery. There is no point from which I can recognize point. To know the center it must be related to point. I can only know it if I approach it from the periphery.
The more I stay in the field, I see there is no center.”

The next morning the discussion continued. We asked Krishnaji, “What is the periphery? How is it formed? How are fences made? Are they different material from the pointless center?”
“Why do you stay at periphery? Why cannot you stay in the field, seeing its flora and fauna, its perfume? Why are you concerned with the fence?” he responded.
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-19 22:41

“外围一旦动摇,中心就形成了。”
原文是:The center is formed when periphery is agitated.
意思是:外围躁动不安时,就会形成中心。

“其实根本没有一个自我中心,存在的只有觉性罢了。”
原文是:There is no center, but only the field.
意思是:没有中心,只有这片领域。
the field指没有中心的领域,胡却译为了抽象的“觉性”。
所谓“安住于觉性”的原文本意是“待在这片(没有中心的)领域中”。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-19 22:41

“其实根本没有一个可以被认得出的焦点。自我感往往和这些焦点有关,从外向内的活动制造了这种自我感。
我愈是能安住于觉性中,愈是能认清没有自我的事实。”
原文是:There is no point from which I can recognize point. To know the center it must be related to point. I can only know it if I approach it from the periphery.
“The more I stay in the field, I see there is no center.”
第一段就完全没有译出原文的意思。

原意是:我无法从一个点认出这个点。要知道有个中心,它就必须与(外围的)点联系起来。我只有从外围靠近它才能知道有个中心。
我更多地待在整片领域中,就会发现没有中心。

胡译的克传中还有很多个“觉性”,大家看到了知道多数是observation,观察,觉察这个意思就行了。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 09:48

另一个词是“自性”。

第15章胡译名为“圆融自性本无碍”,原文是:
“The Mind Operating as Part of the Whole Is Endless.”
意思是:作为整体的一部分运作的头脑(或心灵)是无限的。
自性也是胡引申出来的意思。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 10:13

第42章中:

克问道:“你是说印度人比西方人更关心宗教?印度的传统一向认为了悟自性、了悟宇宙最高的法则才是最重要的。”
原文是:
“Are you saying,” asked K, “that the Indian mind is more concerned with religious matters than the West? In India the concern with religion has been deep. Indian tradition has maintained that the understanding of the Self, of the Universe, of the Highest Principle, is the most significant pursuit.”
“自性”对应的原文是the Self, self是自我的意思。克在说话时未必有把self大写的意思,the understanding of the self的意思不过是了解自我罢了。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 10:18

第19章:

维诺巴吉的某位追随者问道:“证悟自性是什么意思?”
“你认为呢?”克反问。
“与大梵或上帝合一。”维诺巴吉的某位信徒说。
“上帝只是一个名相而已,要想真的体悟上帝,你必须有自由的心智,不追随任何人的优秀心智,心中没有上师及体制,试试看。”

原文是:
One of Vinobaji’s followers asked, “What is the meaning of self-realization?”
“What does it mean to you?” was the reply.
“Union with Brahman—with God,” said one of Vinobaji’s disciples.
“God is a phrase. To realize God, you must have a free mind, a good mind that does not follow anybody. A mind that has no guru, no system. Try it.”

“证悟自性”对应的原文是“self-realization”. 而这个词是别人提出的问题中包含的,克对这个词并没有直接做出解释。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 10:28

第7章:

“如同我曾经说过的,我只有一个目的,那就是使人类都能得到解脱,帮助他们挣脱所有的局限,只有这样他们才能得到永恒的快乐,证悟自性。

“As I have said, I have only one purpose: to make man free, to urge him towards freedom; to help him to break away from all limitations, for that alone will give him eternal happiness, will give him the unconditioned realization of the self.

这段话是克在1929年解散明星社的时候说的一段话。the unconditioned realization of the self,与其说是“证悟自性”,不如说是“不受限地认识自我”,即对自我的彻底了解。
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 11:13

150页:
“处在如如不动的状态中,至福就会降临,认识死亡便是至福,因为死亡即是未知。”
“Benediction comes when there is a state of nonreaction. It is a benediction to know death because death is the unknown.”
nonreaction的意思是不反应。

175页:
要想超越它或如如不动地面对它,需要极大的能量。
To be ahead of it and meet it without reaction and be out of it requires great energy.
without reaction:没有反应。

235页:
我问他如果没有早期的观察、质疑和检验,他现在所说的如如不动有可能达到吗?克里希那吉像往常一样安静地聆听。他说:“思想的彻底止息就是如如不动,就是空寂;充满着时间感的思想必须停止。”
I asked whether the total immobility of the mind he now spoke about was possible without the earlier observation, questioning, examining? Krishnaji was listening carefully, as he always did in dialogue. He said, “Total ending of thought is immobility, is silence; thought as time has to stop.”
the total immobility of the mind:头脑(或心灵)的彻底安静。
这章里的若干个如如不动对应的都是immobility.
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 11:22

249页:

“如果一个人说:我已经尝试过所有的修炼,我现在已经把它们否定了,那么这个人就成长了。如果你能如如不动,也不把你的时间花在比较克说的话和佛陀说的话,剩下的又是什么?
“The man who says, ‘I have tried all this and negated,’ he is moving. If you do not move or move in a narrow circle and spend your time comparing what K says with what the Buddha says, at the end of that, what is left?
he is moving.不是“这个人就成长了。”而是:他在动着。
整段改一下:说“我已经尝试了这一切,并否定了它们”的这个人,他在行动。如果你不行动,或者只是在一个狭小的圈子里动着,并把时间花在比较克说的话和佛陀说的话上面,那么到了最后,会剩下什么?
作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-20 11:41

其他一些如如不动,通常对应就是immovable, not move, without movement, non-movement,不动摇,不动,不活动,不存在运动。




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